Is this what awaits us?

I hate to admit, but I can assure you that yes, this is what awaits us.
Don’t be surprised if lawlessness, thuggery, abuse and anarchy become part of us.

I must tell you, Monwa, that I have hope that lawlessness and crime would be less under a Jacob Zuma regime. He has made some promising sounds. But I think that the message must go through to the cadres on ground level. Neither Zuma nor Mbeki will condone this type of behaviour – remember how Mbeki told a boisterous crowd to give Helen Zille an opportunity to speak. But unfortunately it is always the lower ranks, who like to pull rank.

I hear what you are saying Eddie, but Zuma has never distanced himself from his supporters thuggish behaviour.
I’m pretty sure that you watched what they did to Mosioua Lekota, Bertha Gxowa and even Mbeki live on TV on Sunday.
Remember that the conference is beamed live overseas.
Zuma never chastised his supporters when they swore and called Khwezi, the woman who accused him of rape last year, names.
He said nothing about his supporters’ behaviour outside court during his fraud trial last year.
They burnt an ANC T-shirt bearing Mbeki’s face and they even swore at the State President.
Is this the kind of South Africa we want where differing views are not tolerated?
I guess not.
By the way, Mbeki is not my cup of tea.
I believe that both Zuma and Mbeki are not leadership material.

I have just read an SMS in one of the Cape newspapers and I saw an interesting message.
It reads: “If what we saw in Polokwane on Sunday is the future, then I prefer to live in the past.”

You really have me worried Monwa. Especially also after I read Piet van Niekerk’s report on our Dispatch 24/7 blog. Read it. If even Trevor Manuel loses his cool, then things seem to be going from bad to worse.

It’s time for reality check. Whoever wins the ANC presidency will have a very tough job in his hands.
Honestly, I don’t think there will be unity in the ANC after this conference.
I blame both Mbeki and Zuma for the animosity which prevails amongst ANC members.
The two should have done our country a big favour and withdraw from the race.
The biggest problem is that many people, who support either of the two, have told themselves that they will be in powerful positions if the ANC wins the 2009 national elections.
I don’t think the ANC will get a two-thirds majority in 2009.
Many people are going to stay away from the polling stations.

[...] Both writes about the mistreatment of journalists at the conference. Journalists were not allowed in the voting area and some were involved in a scuffle with ANC [...]

Monwa on the sms that you received did you perhaps by chance tried to find out from the sender what past is he\she referring to, eg the dark old days, nNelson Mandela era or Thibo;s era.The whole thing to me was about chances i men TM had his chance and he did a hell of a job and now is time for JZ whom many people are sceptical of.I could not agree with you more eddie with your view that it is the lower rank that pull the file rank.So people my answer to the topic is definately NOT.

Well Thembela, now its over and done and we will just have to ait and see what the future holds. I’m not too pessimistic. There have been some encouraging sounds coming from the new ANC prez

my word Thembela, you managed to overturn the EddieBotha org! Congratulations.

The SMS was in a newspaper with no number attached to it.
It will be great if Mshowers can make us, who are his critics, eat humble pie.
But I doubt that can happen especially if he goes down in his fraud judges.

Is it really over, Eddie? Remember, we are not talkign about politics and over-inflated egos here.

I wanted to say we are talking about politics and over-inflated egos here.

Monwa, I meant the election being over. But, I sincerely hope that the positive sounds that we have heard from Zuma was not just pre-election talk. If he really meant what he said about crime being too high and that we need to pay cops more, I cannot fault him. If he feels the same way about teachers, nurses and state doctors I also cannot fault him. As long as we do not pay those who are inefficient more. Time will tell.

Okay, I get your point, Eddie. Once again, I would like to remind you that we are talking about politicians here.
You must also remember that Zuma, himself, is under investigation and could be charged any time.
Even his big friend Mac Maharaj is also under investigation.
Zuma was in a high government position between 1999 and his axing in 2005. He did zilch while serving as deputy president of the country.
The pre-election talk was just to organise people so that they can rally behind him.
Zuma knows very well what our problems as a country are, that’s why he promised a lot.
Do you think somebody who’s accused of dipping his fingers in a cookie jar will be able to fight crime? I think not.
Don’t be surprise if the Scorpions unit is dissolved or put under the useless police force.

That’s a major concern, Monwa. But if we don’t still hope, what’s left? My real concern is that it will be pay back time for Zuma to the unions. And I sometimes wonder whether our economy is really in such a good state than what we are to believe. Of course at the moment, with 2010 around the corner, there will be economic activity. But what happens post 2010? Particularly when debt has to be repaid. Add to that the bill for the arms deal(or has it already been paid?). At the moment the ordinary taxpayer feels the crunch everytime the price of a barrell of oil increases. That is something beyond the taxpayer’s control, and you can try to save as much as you can but spiralling costs such as the oil price will affect inflation. It could become worse. The follows the snowball effect… more unemployment,less money to spend on infrastructure, service delivery… the list goes on. Suddenly Mr Zuma will find that promises to alleviate the plight of the poor is not so easy.

Please read the following story from Sapa:

ZUMA ACTION THREAT, AS SCORPIONS FACE THE CHOP

There is enough evidence to prosecute Jacob Zuma for corruption, acting national director of public prosecutions Mokotedi Mpshe said on
Thursday.
Speaking on talk radio 702, Mpshe said a final decision on when to take action against the newly elected ANC president was “imminent.”
The corruption charges relate to Zuma’selationship with financial adviser and convicted fraudster Schabir Shaik.
Zuma was fired as the country’s deputy president shortly after Shaik’s conviction.
Initial corruption charges were dropped against Zuma last year as the state said it wasn’t ready to prosecute him.
The Star reported on Thursday that the National Prosecuting Authority’s elite crime-busting unit, the Scorpions, would be disbanded and its investigators would find a new home in the SA Police Service by June next year.
The fate of the Scorpions emerged after the peace and stability commission agreed on this at the ANC’s national conference on Wednesday.
However, its prosecutors would remain with the National Prosecuting Authority and the Justice Department, the newspaper said.
It was not clear what the effect would be on pending cases, especially into police chief Jackie Selebi and Zuma.
The Star said Safety and Security Minister Charles Nqakula confirmed that the commission had met and that it had endorsed the ANC’s June
policy conference proposals.
All that remained was the official stamp of approval, when the proposal was put before the ANC conference plenary.
“The commission has taken the decision to dissolve the Scorpions, but the conference ultimately decides,” Nqakula said.
The views of ANC delegates attending the commission was that the Scorpions were responsible for their downfall – with the perception that the unit was used by senior government officials to target Zuma.
The Star said the unit has often been claimed to be an example of President Thabo Mbeki’s alleged abuse of power.

I saw that and personally I think it will be a big blow if the Scorpions are disbanded – especially if it is placed under the very, very ineffectual police department of Jackie Selebi. Of course, once Selebi has faced the chop the police may become a more efficient outfit.

Zuma has only been ANC president for less than 48 hours, but his supporters behave as if they own South Africa.

Please read the following piece from Sapa:
SABC news head ‘threatened’
SABC head of news Snuki Zikalala has confirmed he was threatened by delegates at the ANC conference in Polokwane, The Star reported on Thursday.

According to daily, a group of delegates stormed the SABC studio at the ANC conference on Wednesday and threatened Zikalala.

“We reported it to the outgoing secretary general. It is uncalled for and unbecoming,” he said.

Zikalala said the ANC was going to investigate and if anyone was found to have a case to answer, disciplinary proceedings would be taken.

Saw that. While I, like many others, believe that Snuki was (or still is) a puppet of the present government, I think it is wrong to threaten him. If that kind of behaviour is allowed, we will become like the AWB – where journalists were threatened and that is unacceptable in a civilised society. But is seems that it was again, like I said before, the lower rank and file who acted in this manner. I am sure Zuma will not condone it. He should now, as a real leader figure, make a stand against such behaviour. Hope he does.

My main problem is that Zuma’s supporters have been threatening people for quite some time now, and the man has never condemned or distanced himself from their actions.
This leaves me with one conclusion – that he condones their behaviour and is not his own man.

That could have devastating consequences for us in the eyes of the world. So far business leaders seem to be quite uncorned about his election but if his person is associated with thuggish behaviour that too will change. He needs to show that he possesses presidential qualities.

Sapa reports that Zuma describes Mbeki as a friend and brother
What I know is that there’s a difference between what Zuma says or do and what his supporters say or do.

The following is a Sapa piece:

Newly elected ANC president Jacob Zuma struck a conciliatory tone towards his predecessor, Thabo Mbeki, in his first speech as party leader on Thursday.
Referring to Mbeki as a “a comrade, friend and brother”, Zuma said: “Contesting positions among comrades does not make us enemies.”
Zuma was addressing African National Congress delegates on the final day of the party’s national conference in Polokwane.
He toppled Mbeki on Tuesday night with more than 800 votes after a bruising leadership battle.
On Thursday Zuma said of Mbeki: “I have known the man, the brother, the friend and indeed the leader for over 30 years”.
He said he never thought that he and Mbeki would one day compete for the same position in the ANC.
Zuma said the party would now continue to work together to unite and build a stronger ANC.
He added that there was “no reason for uncertainty or fear in any quarter”.
He was referring to anxiety that may arise because of the existence of two presidents, one of State and another of the party.
“Comrade Mbeki and I, both as members of the ANC first and foremost will develop smooth working relations between government and the ruling
party”.
“Comrades and friends, we are proud of the fact that we are emerging from Polokwane stronger and ready to heal and unite the ANC and face the present and the future with greater vigour.
“There cannot be a Zuma camp nor an Mbeki camp.”

They have to be conciliatory. It’s Christmas.