G’town priest’s brutal murder

plasticuitdieblouvanonsehemel,

Please read the posting from KG.
At least try to respect the death of a fellow human being without pontificating.

Yes, ‘thou shalt not kill’, but also ‘an eye for an eye’. These criminals that the justice system protects in SA are a bunch of useless, spoilt individuals for the upkeep of whom we need to spend taxpayers’ money so that they can sit in jail for the rest of their useless lives, or they’re released by the so-called State President and then go on to make our lives miserable with their crimes. I think some of you people who want to moralize about all this, the black nouveau riches of this country, are all BRAIN DAMAGED! Get a life!

Clive would be appalled at this talk of the death penalty. Rather pray for his soul than waste time on academic debate.

I worry about the instant call for the death penalty every time there is a murder as senseless and as brutal as this. Countries that have the death penalty still have crime, still have horrible murders, even countries like America have the worst statistics of serial killers in the world – and they have the death penalty. Shouldn’t we be focussing on our children. Teaching them the difference between wrong and right. Teaching them how to respect the law and the importance of doing no harm to others? Our children every single day are bombarded with images of glamorised gangsters and crime that pays. |Be it from movies or every day life. Their own teachers are responsible for raping and hurting them, showing up drunk to class and even not showing up at all. Some parents break the law every single day in full view of their kids by ignoring something simple as Traffic laws. What message are we sending them if this is their first view of lawlessness? I say we need to find a way to start turning the perception of the youth around. Maybe just maybe we can stop a potential future murderer in his tracks? Isn’t one life saved better than none at all?

@Patrick.
I apologise for confusing you with Phumzo. That particular blog wasn’t up to your usual standard.

No Patrick. Because Phumzo originally refered to scripture, I used the Israeli (lack of) application of capital punishment as an indication of how the law of Moses is applied by modern Jews. I intended nothing more.

As far as the state of Israel goes: the legitmately negotiated country rightfully belongs to Israel because – well it was lawfully negotiated. How much Israel can claim by right of conquest is a more complex argument, but the wars were started by the Arab nations and they have no room to cry foul.

Applied to ET: I contend that any land that the Voortrekkers found uninhabited gives them as legitimate a claim as anybody else. Not a PC thing to say, but the trekkers moved into the land when much of it had been decimated by the impis of Shaka and Msilikazi.
Then there is the land negotiated by treaty between the trekkers and the then black leaders. Again, legally it belongs to the trekkers and I get p*ssed off by the claim that the blacks were naive innocents ripped off by the marauding whites. History is more robust.

Lastly, the land that the Boer republics claimed by right of conquest. Who started which war? Depends upon your prejudices. It doesn’t help that there is no war known to S.A. history that was “all black” or “all white”. To the present day people have been prepared to back whichever side suited them.

However, if we are going to have restitution of land claims in a non-racial S.A., then ALL claims must be fairly considered. Including ET and his lunatics.

Isn’t it better for all concerened if we simply stop this ridiculous squabble and concentrate on working together?

well said KG…

i can tell u guys didnt know Clive . Clive was a diffrent man . he didnt care about all this that you are talking about. he oved people irrespective of their backgrounds. Blacks and Whites alike. he was a champion for the poor. i knew him , he was a friend , a teacher and a brother. i have shared many moments with him. so please dnt bring politics in to this . this is about Clive “lekgoa ” Newman.

My Friend your death has saddened some of us who knew and loved you. your great deeds for the poor will never be forgoten. condolences to your family. i hope ypur death will remind us that there is still a lot that needs to be done.

Dave,

Then by implication, ET is correct to reclaim the old Boer Republics, because the Afrikaner is the descendants of the Groot Trek?

Hey, you and Teagan,stop confusing me with Phumzo.

Teagan,

If your contention is that 99% of SAPS members are corrupt, and by implication calls all black enterprises and official the same,what do you then called the following practices?

The Competition Commission has granted Pretoria Portland Cement Company Ltd (“PPC”) conditional leniency from prosecution under the Competition Act, in exchange for PPC’s complete and truthful disclosure of all cartel activities between PPC and its competitors.

PPC applied for leniency shortly after the Commission raided and seized documents and electronic data from PPC’s premises and those of its competitors Lafarge Industries South Africa (“Lafarge”), AfriSam Consortium (Pty) Ltd (“AfriSam”) and Natal Portland Cement Cimpor (Pty) Ltd (“NPC”) on 24 June this year. The raids were in pursuance of the Commission’s investigation of possible collusion in the cement industry.

In its application for leniency PPC confirmed the existence of a cartel to divide markets among the four cement producers. According to this information, the four cement producers agreed to divide the cement market amongst themselves in order to maintain the market shares that each producer held prior to 1996 when a lawful cement cartel existed and was regulated by exemptions to the competition legislation. The agreement was implemented up until this year through highly disaggregated sales information each producer submitted to the Cement and Concrete Institute of South Africa (“C&CI”) through an audit firm appointed by C&CI. The four cement producers are the main members of C&CI.

In addition, there was an agreement that PPC would not compete in the Northern Natal market in exchange for Lafarge not competing with PPC in the Botswana market.

In exchange for immunity from prosecution PPC has agreed to cooperate fully with the Commission until the investigation and Tribunal proceedings are finalised. In terms of the agreement reached PPC must also stop its involvement in cartel activity and refrain from submitting competition sensitive information to the C&CI.

The problem with competitors dividing markets between themselves is that they successfully shield themselves from competition and can thus price above competitive levels with no opposition or alternative from a competitor.

The Commission will now proceed with its further investigation of this matter with PPC’s cooperation.

I’ll await your response with eager anticipation.

Every person has the right to life and may protect himself, even up to the point of having to take the life of the violent attacker, if that is necessary. No blame will be put on him for reasonable and necessary self-defence because the murderous attacker has forfeited his own right to live. But if the murder should succeed in his attack, society now has the duty on behalf of the victim to ensure that justice is done by imposing the death penalty on him. Anything less than this is gross disrespect for the inviolability of human life. This low view of the value of human life in turn leads to uninhibited social disintegration and chaos and tyranny . It is a matter of justice, not punishment !

@Phumzo. Israel as an example because they are the descendants of the exodus.
Incidentally, the 1948 boundaries of Israel were fairly negotiated. It was the Arab neighbours who immediately began the series of wars that continue to this day. You reap what you sew (also scripture).

I was simply trying to give some background to the emotive mis-use of scripture. Especially when, as noted today re Eskom, you obviously do not even read the material on which you comment.

Chris makes a very good point – but we can’t escape that actions have consequences – which is why Jesus came to Earth,

anyone ever watched the “Planet of the apes?”

Thank you Chris.

From the cross Jesus looked down and said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing…”. We all want justice for victims of senseless crime; we all want a society shaped by the rule of law and underpinned by a strong moral compass. I’m just not sure that knee-jerk calls for the re-instatement of the death penalty take South Africa any closer to this ideal. Rather, the question is how do we work constructively towards a society that is characterised by compassion, care for neighbour, reconciliation, justice, peace and love…in fact a society that Jesus himself modelled and then died to make possible.

David,

But Israel do not need the death penalty. Their illegal occupation gives them the freedom to summarily execute sling-throwing youths and members of the Palestine Authority with impunity with the subtle approval of their ally, the West in general and the US in particular.

Dodgy point you’ve made i presume, or was it a case of using the wrong example without realising the emotive depth of the Middle East situation?

Teagan,

I think that your posting should be directed to me since i made the reference to the CPF.

It saddens me to notice the wholesale generalisations regarding the SAPS being made on this blogs. Such normally eminates from people who never made the effort to work with the SAPS in combatting crime.

I hope that this demoralizing statements regarding SAPS members will not come back to haunt the perveyors of such when they are presently surprised by the magnitude of the hard work that most SAPS members put into their efforts.

Emotional outburst coupled with unscientific projections will not help in combatting crime.

@Phumzo – What’s the strenghtening of the CPU going to help. 99 % of the current police force will have to be fired as they are either corrupt or lazy. Maybe if we have a police force that is on the ball then we can think of strenghtening it but then again with a good police force & good turn around times from them the dealth penalty would be so much better as it will bring down the murder rate at least by 60 % as these scumbags would get the message that if you do the time you WILL do the crime.

Our crimenals today don’t have the respect because they know that in a couple of years they’re set free or all they need to do is to fake a terminal illness to get their get out of jail free card. Maybe the entire government should be replaced as well then we’ll see a turn around in SA

As an Anglican, i am deeply shocked by this tragedy.

However, whilst some are quick to apportion blame, i rather hold the view that we should strenghten social structure like the CPF in order to remove this cancer in our society.

R.I.P.

Dodgy theology, Phumzo. The correct translation is “thou shalt not murder”. Mosaic law makes provision for manslaughter (culpable homicide), acts of war AND the execution of people who have committed capital offences. Rabbis have been very good at limiting the definition of “capital offence”. Modern Israel, for example, has the death penalty but (as far as I know) has only ever used it once – Adolph Eichmann.

This ties in with Moses’ instruction “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth”. At the time of the exodus, punishments were arbitrary and excessive and Moses introduced the concept of “let the punishment fit the crime”. Human nature being what it is, this became twisted to reintroduce arbitrary and excessive punishment and Jesus corrected the misinterpretation during the Sermon on the Mount.

Criminals already enjoy presumption of innocence, benefit of reasonable doubt, right to a speedy trial and legal representation. All based on the law of Moses.

Should the accused, in spite of all these advantages, still be found guilty and should the death penalty be appropriate, execution would be in accord with the scriptures.

Ex-Com, I sympathise with people who advance the death penalty. Can you help me how is going to introduced in SA?
Yesterday some were blaming the govt of shifting from the scripture, today we demand the very govt to introduce the capital punishment. What happened to the commandment ‘Thou shall not kill’?
Life is interesting!!

This is so sad. Here was a man who made a major difference in so many people’s lives and some scumbag comes along and snuffs it out like a life meant noting. For what?

I really hope they find this piece of garbage and make sure he is locked away for life with Big Baba as a cell mate!

For as long we our governemnt, human rights activists and opposition parties are against the death penalty, we are still going to die brutally in the hands of criminals.My condelences go the beareved family.No further comments

The slaughter of the innocent continues.No one is safe anymore, not even the men of the cloth who give their lives and time in the service of society.The scum who did this is the reason for the clamour for the return of the gallows.